A Chat with GPT-4: The Harmful Effects of Static Societies and the Role of Memes in Preventing Progress and Change

A conversation with GPT-4 about a topic I've been reading in The Beginning of Infinity pertaining to memes, pessimism, Sparta, and how old memes try to choke out new ones. The quote is from a chapter in the book.

GPT went a bit off script here with the amount of vocab (or perhaps its just bragging about its erudition…)^[2]

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Since the sustained, exponential growth of knowledge has unmistakable effects, we can deduce without historical research that every society on Earth before the current Western civilization has either been static or has been destroyed within a few generations. The golden ages of Athens and Florence are examples of the latter, but there may have been many others. This directly contradicts the widely held belief that individuals in primitive societies were happy in a way that has not been possible since – that they were unconstrained by social convention and other imperatives of civilization, and hence were able to achieve self-expression and fulfilment of their needs and desires. But primitive societies (including tribes of hunter-gatherers) must all have been static societies, because if ever one ceased to be static it would soon cease to be primitive, or else destroy itself by losing its distinctive knowledge. In the latter case, the growth of knowledge would still be inhibited by the raw violence which would immediately replace the static society’s institutions. For once violence is mediating changes, they will typically not be for the better. Since static societies cannot exist without effectively extinguishing the growth of knowledge, they cannot allow their members much opportunity to pursue happiness. (Ironically, creating knowledge is itself a natural human need and desire, and static societies, however primitive, ‘unnaturally’ suppress it.) From the point of view of every individual in such a society, its creativity-suppressing mechanisms are catastrophically harmful. Every static society must leave its members chronically baulked in their attempts to achieve anything positive for themselves as people, or indeed anything at all, other than their meme-mandated behaviours. It can perpetuate itself only by suppressing its members’ self-expression and breaking their spirits, and its memes are exquisitely adapted to doing this. (Location 6713)

What reason would memes have to invoke pessimism and prevent people from improving society?

GPT:

Memes (ideas, beliefs, or practices that spread within a culture) might invoke pessimism and prevent people from improving society for several reasons:

It is important to note that not all memes have negative consequences; many promote positive values like empathy, solidarity, creativity, etc., which contribute positively to individual well-being and societal improvement.

Bram:

but the memes that are the order themselves would have some origin, right? when they were the upstart new idea on the block? Would a meme reject the notion of its own formation to squash new memes?

GPT:

Yes, memes have an origin, and at some point in time, they were indeed the new idea on the block. However, over time as these memes become more dominant within a society or culture, they may adapt to protect their position by suppressing competing ideas or innovations.

A meme could potentially reject the notion of its own formation to squash new or rival memes in order to preserve its dominance. This might occur for several reasons:

To sum up—even though every meme has an origin and was once just another idea competing for attention among many others—some successful ones rework their narratives over time so that people see them as enduring cornerstones of society rather than mutable products of history subject change through innovation like everything else around them is transformative influencing it indirectly since exponential growth occurs under specific circumstances without pressure exerted externally challenging current systems losing grip hegemonic hold empowering individual expression opening avenues generating resistant innovative interpretations toward progressive betterment eventually finding balance stability structure accepting dynamic interplay between old-new paradigms acknowledging inherent fluidity-human cultural evolution carving out spaces negotiation conflict resolution ensuring harmonious integration collective wisdom diverse perspectives globalized interconnected world we inhabit today

Bram:

what are some examples of memes in today's society that are self preserving but unhelpful/stifling of new ideas?

GPT:

There are several examples of self-preserving memes in today's society that can be unhelpful or stifling to new ideas. Some of these include:

Bram:

do memes propogate the good old days ideas to invoke nostalgia for times people werent even alive in? surely if the meme is incumbent it must have been formed before the brain in which it lives in was formed? if not, the brain would remember the idea being made

GPT:

Yes, memes related to the "good old days" can indeed propagate nostalgia for times that people never personally experienced. This happens because such memes tap into a collective cultural memory and present it in an idealized or simplified manner, making individuals feel a sense of longing or attachment even if they did not live through those periods themselves.

The incumbent meme does not necessarily have to be formed before the brain it resides in; however, its successful propagation depends on how effectively it gets transmitted from one person (or generation) to another. A person may learn about these nostalgic ideas through various channels like family stories, media representations (movies, TV shows), books or other cultural artifacts that convey information about past eras.

As individuals consume these narratives and images about earlier times being portrayed as simpler or better in some way compared to the present world's complexities and challenges, they might develop emotional connections with this idea without having firsthand experience of living during those perceived golden ages.

In summary, while incumbent nostalgic memes are often rooted in historical events before an individual's lifetime, their continued existence relies on effective transmission across generations and representation within contemporary culture—making them relevant enough for people who were not alive at that time but still find meaning or solace in these romanticized concepts of yesteryears.

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